Episode 316
Rick Wise, Mitch Kupchak
Host Bill Donohue welcomes two great guests from the worlds of baseball and basketball. First, former MLB pitcher Rick Wise joins the show and looks back on his career, including his 1971 no-hitter, his memorable relief appearance in Game 6 of the 1975 World Series, and what it was like pitching in an era when pitchers were expected to hit, bunt, and go deep into games. Wise also shares his thoughts on how baseball has changed over the years.
Later, Bill talks with Long Island native Mitch Kupchak about his journey from Brentwood High School to Olympic gold, three NBA championships as a player, and a successful career as an NBA executive. Kupchak discusses playing in the NBA, learning from legendary Lakers executive Jerry West, and eventually building championship teams himself, including the trade that brought Pau Gasol to Los Angeles.
It’s a fun look back at two impressive careers, with plenty of great stories about baseball and basketball along the way.
Takeaways:
- Bill Donahue structures the program as a convivial, locally rooted forum where he foregrounds historical context and listener engagement while steering detailed conversations about legacy athletes and tactical evolution in sport.
- Rick Wise emphasizes the obsolescence of pitcher-hitting and small-ball fundamentals, arguing that he and his contemporaries cultivated bunting and situational hitting as indispensable strategic tools.
- He recollects career-defining moments with intricate anecdotal specificity — the 1964 doubleheader aftermath, a 1971 no-hitter where he also hit two homers, and an extended perfect-inning stretch against Chicago.
- Rick frames the 1975 World Series Game 6 not merely as Fisk's climactic homer but as a composite narrative in which he credits Bernie Carbo's oft-overlooked pinch-hit heroics and the bullpen's collective resilience.
- He candidly reflects on transactional realities — being traded for Hall of Famers, salary disputes with management, and the tension between monetary undervaluation and a lifelong devotion to baseball.
- Mitch Kupchak recounts his developmental trajectory from Brentwood prodigy to North Carolina standout and Olympic gold medalist, describing how formative mentors and high-school camps catalyzed his athletic and tactical maturation.
- He explicates his dual-phase professional arc: an impactful playing career with the Bullets and Lakers followed by a cerebral front-office apprenticeship under Jerry West that prioritized talent evaluation, clandestine acquisition strategies like Pau Gasol, and judicious veteran recruitment.
- Bill's broadcast repeatedly situates the guests within a communal Long Island sporting memory, as he uses the platform to connect listeners to archival narratives, upcoming shows, and local sports historiography.
Transcript
The views expressed in the following program do not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgbb.
Speaker A:Live from the WGB studios in Merrick, New York, this is Sports Talk New York.
Speaker B:Good evening and hello again everybody.
Speaker B:Welcome welcome to Sports Talk New York on WGB in Merrick, Long Island, New York.
Speaker B: th day of September,: Speaker B:Our engineer Brian Graves just across the way in his fortress of solitude leading the way.
Speaker B:Glad you're with us tonight.
Speaker B:Got a nice show lined up for you on this late summer early autumn show up first we'll welcome in the great pitcher from the golden era of Major League Baseball.
Speaker B:Rick Wise will join us.
Speaker B:And in the second half we will welcome in the great Brentwood High School star and three time NBA champion Mitch Kupchak.
Speaker B:He will stop by.
Speaker B:So folks, we've got some great sports talk up ahead in the next hour or so.
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Speaker B:Well, our first guest, he won 188 major league ball games, two time all star, threw a no header, barely missed three other ones.
Speaker B: of the: Speaker B: He stopped by Long island in: Speaker B:Welcome to Sports Talk New York tonight, Rick Wise.
Speaker B:Rick, good evening.
Speaker C:Hey, thanks Bill.
Speaker C:Nice to talk with you.
Speaker B:Nice to have you aboard, Rick.
Speaker B:Well, I just want to check this with you, Rick.
Speaker B:Your father was a pitcher under Ray Fisher at the University of Michigan and he had some pitching duels with Michigan States hall of Famer by the name of Robin Roberts.
Speaker C:Not many people know that, Bill.
Speaker C:Robin Roberts helped me when I was a baby, believe that or not.
Speaker C:Yeah, dad and, and Robin were very good friends.
Speaker C:Robin was a prince of a Man, rest his soul.
Speaker C:I mean, it was nice to meet him later on in life.
Speaker C:And yeah, dad had a pretty good career at Michigan pitching under Ray Fisher, and also played football for the University of Michigan's Gold Blue.
Speaker B:And he, he played football with the Heisman Trophy winner, Tommy Harmon.
Speaker C:Well, they called, they call, they called that Harmon's shadow.
Speaker C:He played, he played behind him all the time, so.
Speaker C:Right, the great Tom Harmon.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Actually, dad had a tryout with the Detroit Lions as a punter.
Speaker C:He was.
Speaker C:He could have turned professional as a punter, I believe.
Speaker C:Detroit Lions, wow.
Speaker B:That's something to be said.
Speaker B:That's great news, rick.
Speaker B: Now, in: Speaker B:That was quite an experience.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:It was the second game of a doubleheader against the New York Mets at Shea Stadium.
Speaker B:And folks, you might be getting a little clue here.
Speaker B:It was Father's Day and the day's first game saw the Phillies Jim Bunning throw a perfecto, a perfect game against the mets.
Speaker B:And an 18 year old rookie by the name of Rick Wise had to follow that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:What do you do for an encore?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, the big thing, funny thing was the players were screaming and screaming coming into the clubhouse and of course the sports writers were following in and everything.
Speaker C:And I was looking for a coach.
Speaker C:I said, I need a baseball.
Speaker C:I got to go warm up.
Speaker C:Where's the kidney?
Speaker C:A baseball, for crying out loud.
Speaker C:So the funny thing is Johnny Klipstein and I combined for a three hitter.
Speaker C:I think that's still the least amount of hits in a double.
Speaker C:A true double header.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And so I think I went into the fourth inning, I went without giving up a hit and then I walked the guy in the fourth or fifth inning, I forget what inning.
Speaker C:One of those two.
Speaker C:And the whole stadium stood up and started applauding.
Speaker C:I'm going, what's going on here?
Speaker C:And I realized later on, you know, was the first baserunner.
Speaker C:And the double header is some 14 innings, 15 in something like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That guy was Jesse Gonder.
Speaker B:Jesse Gonder, that was Rick.
Speaker B:You walked him.
Speaker B:And the Shake crowd gave the Mets a standing ovation for their first baserunner of the day.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Well, speaking of Jesse, he was the one that almost got the base hit, that Tony Taylor made a tremendous play to preserve that perfect game.
Speaker C:It was Gonder and Tony Taylor.
Speaker C:I mean, if you see that, you just see how great a play it was, especially in view of the circumstances at the time.
Speaker B:Definitely, Yeah.
Speaker B:I remember Tony Taylor, good infielder.
Speaker B:I had his baseball card as a kid.
Speaker B:Went on to have a very decent career for the Phillies.
Speaker C:Oh, he was a good ball player.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Very, very good ballplayer.
Speaker C:Prince of a man, too.
Speaker C:Wonderful man.
Speaker C:And number eight, I believe, as I recall.
Speaker C:And he played hard.
Speaker C:He was.
Speaker C:He knew the game inside and out.
Speaker C:He really did.
Speaker C:Studied and knew what you're supposed to do with the ball when you got it in certain circumstances.
Speaker C:That's where you're supposed to learn about baseball.
Speaker B:That is true, Rick.
Speaker B:Rick Wise with us tonight on Sports Talk New York.
Speaker B:Now, Rick, during those early days with the Phillies, you played under a guy by the name of Gene Mark.
Speaker B:People may remember Gene as, of course, the Phillies manager, later managed the California Angels when they were in the playoffs.
Speaker B:Tough guy, wasn't he?
Speaker C:Very tough.
Speaker C:Very tough.
Speaker C:He was in Montreal, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:In fact.
Speaker C:In fact, the last Phillies game in Connie Mack Stadium, we beat Mark's Expos.
Speaker C:Our last game in the shy park.
Speaker C:But, yeah, he was a tough guy.
Speaker C:He was the youngest manager in the league, as I recall.
Speaker C:He was like 38 and I was like 18, but he seemed like he was no nonsense, I guarantee you.
Speaker C:Intense, intense.
Speaker C:So I made very sure that I kept my eyes and ears open and my mouth shut around them.
Speaker B:Got you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You folks Google Gene Mark and you'll see a man who very cold, very hard, but the guys learned the game from him.
Speaker B:He was a great strategy manager, I would say.
Speaker B: Well, Rick, in: Speaker B:That was the seventh season pitching for the Phils.
Speaker B:You threw the no hitter against the Reds.
Speaker B:That was at Riverfront Stadium.
Speaker B:The score was four nothing, and you drove in three of the four runs.
Speaker C:Oh, yes, I did.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:As a matter of fact, I added two home runs, too, which makes me the only pitcher in history, you know, to manage that feat.
Speaker C:So, yeah, yeah, it was in the last row.
Speaker C:And the last out, for anyone's knowledge, is Pete Rose.
Speaker C:And that's the last guy you want to see him facing him with a no hitter, the last man standing, so to speak.
Speaker B:What'd he do?
Speaker B:What did he do?
Speaker C:All time hit leader, huh?
Speaker B:What did he do, Pete?
Speaker C:He lined out a semi, you know, semi hard liner to Pete Vukovich at third base.
Speaker C:So I completed that game in an hour and 53 minutes, and through 94 pitches, the game was over.
Speaker B:Yeah, quite a job.
Speaker C:Yeah, that was no doubt about this.
Speaker C:That's my greatest game, personally.
Speaker C:And personally, my greatest year individually, but the 75 Red Sox team, when I had 21 total wins that year, and we won the American League Championship, that was my best overall year contributing to a team.
Speaker B:Yeah, we'll talk about that, Rick.
Speaker B:Now, it was August 28th of the 71 season.
Speaker B:Again, you hit two homers in a game.
Speaker C:I had.
Speaker C:I tied in the National League record by hitting two home runs twice in a game in, you know.
Speaker C:In one season.
Speaker C:Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, that's.
Speaker C:Back then, there were certain pitchers, more than you would think, that can handle the bat pretty well and drive, you know, drive the ball, and I happened to be one of them.
Speaker C:I took pride in my innings, and it helped me.
Speaker C:It helped me win some games along over the years.
Speaker C:And it's just something I grew up with, you know, Little leaguer, Babe Ruth, American Legion High School.
Speaker C:I switched off.
Speaker C:I played shortstop, but I wasn't pitching.
Speaker C:I hit either third, fourth, or fifth every year that I played amateur ball from Little League on.
Speaker C:And so, you know, I had an idea of what the strike zone was.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And, of course, in the big league, it's quite a bit of difference there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, that's one thing that we miss in today's game, Rick, is the pitcher hitting.
Speaker B:These guys are so inept today.
Speaker B:They'd never be able to stand there at the plate after so many years of not coming to the plate to hit.
Speaker B:But that's a piece of strategy, the pitcher hitting that's lost in today's ballgame.
Speaker C:Well, one thing that.
Speaker C:It's one thing not to be able to be a good hitter, but not to be able to bunt the ball.
Speaker C:Gene Mock just would go livid if pitchers couldn't get a bunt down.
Speaker C:And there was no reason pitchers shouldn't be able to get a bunt out just by practicing and, you know, taking pride in getting.
Speaker C:You stayed in a game longer as a pitcher, you get a chance to stay in the game.
Speaker C:If you could bunt the ball, bunt the ball down, get the runner over and continue, you know, pitching in the game, Mock would automatically.
Speaker C:If you were a pitcher that couldn't bunt late innings, you're out of there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And someone.
Speaker C:Someone else came up a pinch hitter.
Speaker C:Even if it's a position player to get the runner over.
Speaker C:That's the way Mock did that.
Speaker C:Yeah, a lot.
Speaker C:He bunted the third or fourth game in the year, he was burning runners over.
Speaker C:I mean, he was the strategist with complete, incredible knowledge of the game.
Speaker C:And so the pitchers, they better be able to Hound the bat that way.
Speaker C:If you could hit, that was great.
Speaker C:But if you couldn't bunt, that was, that was a no.
Speaker B:That, as I said, takes away the strategy of moving the runner over, maybe a safety squeeze.
Speaker B:One guy that you probably know, Rick, took pride in bunting and teaching guys how to bunt.
Speaker B:You remember Buddy Harrelson with the Ducks was a great bunner and he took pride in teaching his pitchers just how to lay down a good bunt.
Speaker C:There's no excuse why you.
Speaker C:He shouldn't be able to lay down a good bunt.
Speaker C:And Buddy was excellent with the, you know, with the bat.
Speaker C:And so I'm not surprised you mentioned him.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:As a, as a butter.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Teacher of bunny.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:We'll look at September 18th of that year.
Speaker B:Rick, you started against the Cubs at the Vet, got off to a rocky start.
Speaker B:The Cubs scored three times.
Speaker B:The pitching coach paid a visit to you and you were thinking, you better start getting things right or you're not going to be around any longer.
Speaker B:And you happen to just set down the next 32 Cubs all the way until Santo singled in the top of the 12th and you won the game because again, here you go with the bat.
Speaker B:You singled in the winning run.
Speaker C:That's true.
Speaker C:You got it right.
Speaker C:And yeah, I gave up a two run homer in the first and a lead off home run in the third and all of a sudden I was behind three, nothing, nobody out.
Speaker C:And yeah, I got a visit from the pitching coach and I don't recall what he said, but it's probably something like, you better start making your pitches and you know, a lot better and otherwise you're not going to be around long.
Speaker C:And obviously I knew that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I did.
Speaker C:I mean that was ten and two thirds perfect innings.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, retiring 32 straight and to, you know, to stay in the game.
Speaker C:I stayed in the game and hit in the ninth inning and hit a double and I was stranded.
Speaker C:I had fit three more innings and you know, and finally the infield in.
Speaker C:Infield was in and I dumped the ball, you know, put a ball over second base to drive in the winning run.
Speaker C:But there was no but, you know, there was.
Speaker C:There was no one in the, in the dugout counting my pitches.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker C:Yeah, you know, they didn't.
Speaker C:I was getting people out and I stay in the game as long as I was pitching.
Speaker C:Well, it wasn't about any 95 pitches and.
Speaker C:Or 5 innings, whichever comes first as it is this day.
Speaker B:Yeah, you kids can google that.
Speaker B:You'll never see a Picture last as long as Rick did that particular night against the Cubs.
Speaker B:Just not seen in today's ballgame.
Speaker C:No, it's not.
Speaker C:Well, the pitchers aren't hitting anymore.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker C:One thing, you know, so you know, it's all about the hitting right now in the Bronze, of course, that's why the American League went to the DH to begin with, because they were way, way behind the National League in attendance and so to, you know, generate more fun at the game, so called fun.
Speaker C:They went to the DH so they thought more runs will be scored.
Speaker C:The people make the people happy.
Speaker C:So that was the advent of the dh, as I recall.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so I don't think.
Speaker C:I don't think there's been any rule changes that has benefited the picture at all these years, at all.
Speaker C:It's been for the runners, it's been for the hitters.
Speaker C:They lowered the mound.
Speaker C:Everything, everything was, you know, going the hitter's way.
Speaker B:Even the pitch clock.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:I might have problems with that through the summer because I wore glasses.
Speaker C:I wear glasses, right.
Speaker C:And to have to wipe off those glasses sometimes get them back on my face, you know, in time takes time.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I don't know how I.
Speaker C:How I do that.
Speaker C:I had to find a way, maybe, maybe contacts, I don't know.
Speaker C:But I would have found a way, believe me.
Speaker B:You would have.
Speaker B:Now, the first time you were traded from the Phils, and it's the first time in your career that you were traded for a Hall of Famer.
Speaker B:We'll talk about the other time in a little bit.
Speaker B:You were traded to the Cardinals for lefty Steve Carlton, who of course went on to a great hall of Fame career.
Speaker B:And how did you feel about leaving the Phillies where you started your career, Rick?
Speaker C:Well, I did.
Speaker C:I didn't like leaving.
Speaker C:It was a complete surprise.
Speaker C:And it all came about.
Speaker C:It wasn't because of our records or we couldn't pitch well.
Speaker C:It was because we both had.
Speaker C:We were at odds with management about our contracts.
Speaker C:It was as simple as that.
Speaker C:And Audrey Bush told Steve Carlin, I ain't going to offer one more red cent.
Speaker C:And I had a figure after being seven years in the major leagues with the Phillies, I was making 25,000 after seven years in the big leagues.
Speaker C:And I finally got that big, that big year I had.
Speaker C:And the no hitter that I had, the record breaker, a couple record breakers.
Speaker C:Home one.
Speaker C:I'm tired of the home runs from my position with the Phillies history.
Speaker C:But all that stuff.
Speaker C:And they let you, and they offered me $10,000 I said, nope.
Speaker C:And I took a firm stand and said no.
Speaker C:I said, here's what I want and here's what I think I'm.
Speaker C:You know, I'm worth.
Speaker B:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker B:Now, I, I read, doing my homework, Rick, that the Phillies.
Speaker B:You said the Phillies could pay Dionne Warwick 15,000 to entertain before a game and she was guaranteed the money even if it rained and she didn't have to appear.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:So there you go.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:I mean, I don't recall doing that, if I said that or if anyone said that, but it just irritated me, you know, that I had put in the time and the effort and the sweat to become the ace of the staff Finally.
Speaker C:From an 18 year old up to a 25 year old.
Speaker C:And, you know, and like I said, Carl and I, we both, we both went, Both got.
Speaker C:I'm on.
Speaker C:Hold it.
Speaker C:I'm on, I'm on the.
Speaker D:I'm not talking.
Speaker B:Dinner time, right, Rick?
Speaker C:Yeah, no, my mail was delivered.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker C:Sorry about that.
Speaker B:That's okay.
Speaker C:Walked right in.
Speaker C:That's what they do around here.
Speaker C:But anyway.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, cheapers.
Speaker C:I mean, we, the numbers we put up back then and what they put up today from the money.
Speaker C:I understand that, you know, you can't, you can't miss what you never had for Grant out loud.
Speaker B:True.
Speaker C:And we, we just.
Speaker C:There was a pure love of the game and, and the respect for the game and how it was played and, and we were all in the same boat.
Speaker C:Treated like dogs.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And, but we were major leaguers and that's, that's what we want.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:We took pride in that.
Speaker C:Loved it.
Speaker C:Loved the game and loved being able to perform in front of the fan.
Speaker B:That's the way to look at it.
Speaker B:We're speaking of Rick Wise tonight on Sports Talk New York.
Speaker B:Let's talk a little bit about the 75 series now, Rick, you get traded to the Boston Red Sox, Game 6, the 75 series.
Speaker B:Some people think that's the greatest baseball game ever played.
Speaker C:Some will say that, yeah, that was a big year for me.
Speaker C:I performed.
Speaker C:I didn't do well in Game 3 in Cincinnati.
Speaker C:I was hoping for another chance, I really was, but I didn't think it would come in the 12th inning of the, of the sixth game.
Speaker C:You know, it was, it was all hands on deck because we were behind three games too.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And so all of us were down there and I hadn't pitched quite a while, but I was ready to go.
Speaker C:I could pitch, but it was just all of a sudden, the call and get.
Speaker C:Get wise up and boy, that your metabolism gets going real quick when you get that call in the bullpen.
Speaker B:And now that was Zimmer, right?
Speaker B:Zimmer was managing the Sox back then.
Speaker D:Pardon?
Speaker B:Don Zimmer was managing the Sox back then, right, Rick?
Speaker C:No, Daryl Johnson.
Speaker B:Oh, Daryl Johnson.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think Zim might have been third base.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay, so.
Speaker C:But anyway, yeah, it surprised me, but I was ready to go in there when, you know, you go in there, you're ready to go.
Speaker C:And this seems strange to be a reliever in such a big game and come in, you know, warming up like that and then having to go all the way in from the bullpen.
Speaker C:Yeah, you start the warm ups and stuff.
Speaker C:It's such an important game.
Speaker C:And they gave me a little trouble.
Speaker C:They had a couple hits, not particularly hard.
Speaker C:That doesn't matter.
Speaker C:There were runners on and, you know, I found a way to get out of the inning.
Speaker C:And finally the, the strikeout to end the inning was great.
Speaker C:I mean, he took an inside fastball and that was it.
Speaker C:So I was just, I was just mopping off my face and hair.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And all of us.
Speaker C:Fisk went up there and, you know, he launched that ball.
Speaker C:It was, you know, a towering ball.
Speaker C:And everyone, and everyone in the dugout was doing the same thing.
Speaker C:Fisk was with her hands on him.
Speaker D:Stay fair, stay fair.
Speaker C:And sure enough, I didn't.
Speaker C:I never saw the ball.
Speaker C:I never saw.
Speaker C:I was down in the dugout, guys jumping around and everything.
Speaker C:And then all of a sudden, you know, he did all those pirouettes and everything out there.
Speaker C:And I mean, each World Series comes.
Speaker C:These days, they show pictures of that.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, and he's always, he's always lighting up the screen with that famous home run.
Speaker C:But you know what?
Speaker C:To be honest, this is my personal opinion.
Speaker C:Bernie Carbo never got the attention that should have been sent his way.
Speaker C:Bernie Barbeau, he pinch hits.
Speaker C:He three run homer in the eighth.
Speaker C:Pudge doesn't get up.
Speaker C:We don't win that game.
Speaker C:It's over without Bernie Carbo.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:Bernie Carbo.
Speaker C:And he's left behind in the dust.
Speaker C:No one speaks about Bernie, but I will.
Speaker C:And I mean this seriously.
Speaker C:He had a couple of pitches, home runs, I believe.
Speaker C:But that one in the eighth inning, you know, to go ahead and tower to tie it, I mean, we were on the verge.
Speaker C:It was bottom of the eighth, you know, one more inning.
Speaker C:Well, that didn't look good.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker C:And Bernie, Bernie fouled off a two Strike.
Speaker C:Pitch.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:Had the people.
Speaker C:It wasn't so important and had people laughing because he was just like at the last second swinging, and he ticked it and just enough that he got another chance at, you know, swing.
Speaker C:And he made the most of it, man.
Speaker C:He drove that ball in the center field and the place went nuts.
Speaker C:Yeah, we all got two in the bullpen, you know, and then.
Speaker C:And then all of a sudden, here comes the phone getting wise up.
Speaker C:And so many, many, many, as you said, people, reporters and sports, you know, say that was the greatest World Series game ever.
Speaker C:It was fabulous.
Speaker C:I'm not one to say that that was the greatest ever.
Speaker C:I'd like to think it was, but I can't by myself say there are other great World Series games that people would say that was the greatest one.
Speaker C:So it's all subjective, right?
Speaker B:It's all up to the individual.
Speaker B:I just want to let folks know we got a couple of minutes left, Rick.
Speaker B:The other hall of Famer that Rick was, was traded for.
Speaker B:Traded to the Cardinals for Steve Carlton.
Speaker B:The other hall of Famer he was traded for was Dennis Eckersley when he was traded to Cleveland and Dennis Eckersley got sent to the White, to the Red Sox.
Speaker B:Excuse me.
Speaker B:That was the other one.
Speaker B:I just want to ask you quickly before we go, Rick.
Speaker B:I remember the conversation we had on the phone the other day.
Speaker B:You mentioned that you love Long island.
Speaker B:You loved your time here and you really enjoyed it.
Speaker C:I did, I did.
Speaker C:It was Central Islip, and I loved it out there.
Speaker C:I mean, some good restaurants, good Italian food, and just.
Speaker C:It's just nice people out there.
Speaker C:I loved it.
Speaker C:I loved it.
Speaker C:One of my highlights of my minor league coaching career.
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:What made you want to get into coaching, Rick?
Speaker C:That's what I knew best.
Speaker C:I took a couple years off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And looked at a couple things I might be interested in, and they didn't appeal to me.
Speaker C:I missed the game.
Speaker C:And as a matter of fact, I had put in five more years coaching than I did playing.
Speaker C:I played 20 years, and I was a minor league coach at every level.
Speaker C:Plus indy ball, independent ball.
Speaker C:25 Years.
Speaker C:So all told, it was around 45 years.
Speaker C:And I guess you call me a lifer.
Speaker B:I was going to say, yeah, that qualifies you as a lifer, Rick.
Speaker B:That's for sure.
Speaker C:I think so.
Speaker B:You also got a chance to manage briefly, didn't you?
Speaker C:Well, only when the manager was thrown out.
Speaker C:I never had managing never appealed to me.
Speaker C:Never wanted to be a manager.
Speaker C:Handling 25 personalities and all that responsibility just I knew pitching and that's what I was comfortable with.
Speaker C:That's what I was comfortable teaching.
Speaker C:That's what I knew the best.
Speaker C:That was the position I thought that enabled me to give the pitchers that was coaching the best chance to go as high as they could as a pitcher.
Speaker B:Well, you certainly did that, Rick, and you certainly had a lot of great experience to teach these guys that were under your tutelage.
Speaker B:Rick, it's been a real pleasure.
Speaker B:I thank you for taking time out of your Sunday night to spend some with us back here on Long island at Sports Talk New York.
Speaker B:I wish you all the best to you.
Speaker B:We'll stay in touch with you out there in Oregon and your T shirt is going to be on the way.
Speaker C:Oh, great, Bill.
Speaker C:I appreciate it.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker B:No worries.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:Really.
Speaker B:Thanks again, Rick.
Speaker C:Hope to talk to you soon.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker B:You take care.
Speaker B:That's the great Rick Wise, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker B:Up next on Sports Talk New York, we'll welcome in a Brentwood boy who made it to the NBA.
Speaker B:So stick around, folks.
Speaker A:You are listening to sports talk new york.
Speaker A: fm and: Speaker A:You're listening to sports talk new york on long island's wgb.
Speaker A:And now back to the show.
Speaker B:All right, folks, we're we're back with Sports Talk New York on WGB AM FM radio live from beautiful downtown Merrick, Long Island, New York, usa, North America, planet Earth, Milky Way galaxy.
Speaker B:If you can't find us with that description, you're really lost, folks.
Speaker B:You shouldn't even be walking around.
Speaker B:The jets lost, which is, yeah, it's not a really shocking revelation.
Speaker B:And of course, the Mets, the final game at Citi Field this year, they dropped that one to the Phillies, splitting that series after trying to play spoiler against the Phillies.
Speaker B:Also, the great Howie Rose's last game broadcasting for the Mets, a fine career.
Speaker B:And we hope to talk to Howie down the road about his long and illustrious career with the New York Mets.
Speaker B: so a gold medal winner at the: Speaker B:I'd like to welcome to Sports Talk New York tonight, Mitch Kupchak.
Speaker B:Mitch, good evening.
Speaker D:Good evening, Billy.
Speaker D:You didn't mention the Yankees lost Tuesday.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker B:Oh, that's right.
Speaker B:Yeah, I did not.
Speaker B:I was derelict in that respect.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker D:Yeah, I grew up a Yankee fan.
Speaker B:I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker B:I'm sorry to hear that, Mitch, but.
Speaker B:No, that's perfectly okay.
Speaker B:But you can understand what side of the fence I'm shooting from, that's for sure.
Speaker D:I got you.
Speaker B:Go ahead.
Speaker D:No, I got you.
Speaker D:Go ahead.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, Mitch, you're in the Suffolk Sports hall of Fame for your work at Brentwood, of course, there is a Facebook group out there called Long Island Basketball History.
Speaker B:And the guys out there on Facebook have been discussing your high school career.
Speaker B:A few of the members, Jack McCarthy, Gerard Smith.
Speaker B:And Gerard is the son of the great head coach at West Islip, Jerry Smith.
Speaker B:I don't know if you remember Coach Smith.
Speaker D:I do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's his son, also played in West Islip.
Speaker B:Some memories that they were talking about that you used to run the Yes, I Can basketball clinics with Coach Kellner over in Brentwood.
Speaker D:Yeah, it started out as, you know, the Mitch Kupchak Basketball Camp.
Speaker D:You know, I thought it was something I wanted to do.
Speaker D:It'd be a lot of fun.
Speaker D:And, you know, we had a lot of kids at Brentwood that ended up being really good basketball players.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker D:But over the years, if you knew Coach Callender, it kind of moved from the Mitch Kupchat basketball camp to the Yes I Can basketball Camp, which was just fine with me because it was a great concept, but it was pretty funny.
Speaker B:Yeah, a lot of guys had a great time there.
Speaker B:I know Gerard Smith was one of them, 75 or 76.
Speaker B:He remembered that after the camp, the counselors and some of the local guys would come down and scrimmage, and you used to come down when you were around, and you went up against Bob McCurdy, who had just led the nation in scoring at the University of Richmond, as we remember, he was about 6, 8, and I think you took him to school.
Speaker B:He was strong, aggressive, and I think you were just too much for him.
Speaker B:But they said it was cool to watch.
Speaker B:Do you remember Bob?
Speaker D:Yeah, I do.
Speaker D:Bob was two years older than me.
Speaker D:He went to Deer Park High School, and we became really, really good friends over the years.
Speaker D:And, you know, Bob transferred from Virginia to Richmond, and he ended up, rather than being two years ahead of me, just one year ahead of me.
Speaker D:And we used to play a lot in the summer.
Speaker D:You know, we Used to just wherever the game was, either I would drive or he would drive.
Speaker D:You know, sometimes we would end up in a park where there was no net, and we would drive the car onto the court, climb on top of the hood of the car and put a net up, you know, and then drive the car away and play.
Speaker D:And then when we were done playing, we put the car back underneath, climb on the hook and take the net and then go back home.
Speaker B:Take your net down.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker D:You know, it was hard to get a court, you know, we could never play indoors, but it was just hard to get an outdoor court, you know, no less a court with a net.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Did you ever play at the courts on Park Avenue in Babylon Village, Mitch?
Speaker D:I don't recall.
Speaker D:Okay, I probably, I probably did.
Speaker D:There wasn't really a court that we didn't.
Speaker D:We didn't find to play on.
Speaker B:And the guys remembered Brentwood won the counties in 71 and 72.
Speaker B:In 71, you played Southampton in the finals and you were just a monster off the board.
Speaker B:That game was at Stony brook.
Speaker B:And the 72 finals were played at the Comac arena, the old Comac arena.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker B:And you were playing Copic.
Speaker B:The big man then for Copeg was Ernie Siebert, who later played center at Syracuse.
Speaker B:And you broke the single season Suffolk county scoring record, breaking Carl Yastremski's record.
Speaker B:Kids may not know that, but Yastremsky held the scoring record for Suffolk county and Mitch broke it.
Speaker D:Yeah, I mean, you're going back a long time and.
Speaker D:Yeah, I was aware of that.
Speaker D:You know, I know I've never met him and obviously, you know, I'm a baseball fan because we talked about baseball at the beginning.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:So I knew who he was and you know, in the 60s and the early 70s, you know, he was at his peak, you know, so I was very aware of, you know, who he was as a baseball player.
Speaker D:And then not many people knew that he was also a really, really good basketball player too.
Speaker B:That's true.
Speaker B:Folks can google Yaz's career.
Speaker B:He was an all around athlete out at Bridgehampton, and you guys should check that out.
Speaker B:A lot of great players, Mitch, coming out of Long island in those days, you had the woods out in East Hampton.
Speaker B:And then there were the guys who followed you, like Jeff Rulin at Sachem.
Speaker B:You had the dynasties more or less at Babylon and North Babylon.
Speaker B:A lot of guys who joined you later on in the Suffolk hall of Fame.
Speaker D:Yeah, it's changed, you know, over the years.
Speaker D:You know, there were really Strong public school programs.
Speaker D:And then, you know, of course, the Catholic schools, they had good programs, too.
Speaker D:And, you know, the kids stayed home.
Speaker D:Pretty much.
Speaker D:You were in high school until a senior.
Speaker D:Today, it's a little bit different, you know, just by virtue of the way, you know, basketball has changed.
Speaker D:You know, the good kids, especially the public school kids, you know, when they're in 9th and 10th grade, they're already being recruited to an academy or a public or a private, you know, school.
Speaker D:And, you know, it's hard to get, you know, a lot of public school kids, you know, like we did so many years ago, they just.
Speaker D:And I don't blame them because it's great for their development, but it's just different.
Speaker B:Understood.
Speaker B:We're speaking with Mitch Kupchak tonight on Sports Talk.
Speaker B: New York Now,: Speaker B:There you were known, more or less relentless, real physical force in the paint.
Speaker B:You became one of the greatest big men in the history of North Carolina.
Speaker B:Talk a little bit about your college career, Mitch.
Speaker D:Yeah, I've been really fortunate, other than my dad.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:But to have mentors in my life and sports, you know, my high school coach, we spoke about Stan Kellner, and then my college coach, you know, Dean Smith.
Speaker B:The legend.
Speaker B:Yeah, real legend.
Speaker D:Yeah, he was already established.
Speaker D:I think he had been there, like, 10, 12 years.
Speaker D:He wasn't the legend yet, but he was an established, you know, coach in the country.
Speaker D:And, you know, I don't know how I ended up, you know, having the savvy to pick that school, but it was, you know, I had guidance, you know, with Coach Kellner, and my parents were involved in all the interviews.
Speaker D:But if I had to pick, you know, one thing that, you know, I just got lucky on, which was really selecting the University of North Carolina and playing for that man.
Speaker B:Mm.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's certainly a great move and one that paid dividends greatly, Mitch.
Speaker B:Now, the double double club is you were only seven Tar Heels in history to average a double double in consecutive seasons.
Speaker B:Talk a little bit about that for us.
Speaker D:You've done your homework, and, you know, I'm not aware of that.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker D: ow when I graduated in, like,: Speaker D:You know, that's the goal.
Speaker D:That school has really, you know, you know, put out some, you know, unbelievable Players.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:Over the years.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And, you know, we have some good teams.
Speaker D:You know, back then, you had to win the ACC tournament to get an invite to the nc Two ways a little bit different.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:And, you know, I regret a little bit that we couldn't advance further, you know, into the NC2, as I don't regret my career there at all.
Speaker D:I just loved playing for Coach Smith and my teammates.
Speaker D:But, you know, I regret not having a better team.
Speaker D:And my senior year, we should have been better.
Speaker D:I did not have a really good game, my last college game, and that was the year I felt we really could have advanced.
Speaker D:So that is my one regret.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:Well, either way, Mitch, your number 21 jersey is hanging from the rafters down there at the Dean Smith Center.
Speaker B:So you must have done something right along the way to be a great Tar Heel.
Speaker B:Mitch Kupchak with us tonight.
Speaker B:A lot of guys texting me, Mitch, they want to talk about the 76 Olympics, that you were the center.
Speaker D:Yeah, you're correct.
Speaker D:And, you know, once again, you know, I was pretty lucky.
Speaker D:You know, I'm not sure if you remember who the coach was, but the coach was Dean Smith also.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:And he picked, you know, four players from North Carolina.
Speaker D:You know, now, we all went to tryouts, and it wasn't just him.
Speaker D:You know, there was a committee, but there were four of us.
Speaker D:There were seven ACC players.
Speaker D: And if you remember, in: Speaker D:Right, right.
Speaker D:So there was a lot of pressure as some of the best college players chose not to play in the Olympics.
Speaker D:A couple of them were centers because the NBA draft was coming up, and you took the chance that you might get hurt.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:But there was a lot of pressure on us as youngsters because we were true amateurs.
Speaker D:One of us, you know, one of the guys on the team, Phil Hubbard, I think he had just turned 18.
Speaker D:And the rest of us, you know, I might have been the oldest at 22, and none of us had played pro ball.
Speaker D:And, you know, we're up against, you know, the international players.
Speaker D:And granted, you know, the American basketball was so much more advanced than international basketball at that time, but they were.
Speaker D:They were big, strong men.
Speaker D:They were in their late 20s and 30s.
Speaker D:The Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Puerto Rico.
Speaker D:We almost got beat by Puerto Rico.
Speaker D:We won by one point in the semifinals.
Speaker D:And I'm jumping center, and I'm looking across, and there's Earl Brown, who was the starting center for Walt Whitman High School.
Speaker D:I said, earl, what are you doing here?
Speaker D:And he says, well, my mom was of Puerto Rican descent.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:I said, okay.
Speaker D:And then Butch Lee was on that team also.
Speaker D:So, you know, the coaching staff was under a lot of pressure, and, you know, everybody expected a Soviet Union, United States final.
Speaker D:And they ended up getting beat by Yugoslavia.
Speaker D:And we almost got beat by Puerto Rico, but we didn't.
Speaker D:We did win.
Speaker D:And then we played against Yugoslavia in the finals, and it was close for maybe the first half, and then we pulled away in the second half, you know, and.
Speaker D:And won, you know, a little anticlimactic, but still, you know, as young kids, you know, it didn't matter to us.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Gold is gold, that's for sure.
Speaker B:Mitch Kupchak with us tonight on Sports Talk New York.
Speaker B:Now, in the NBA, you really establish yourself as, I'll call it, ferocious, high energy, power forward and center.
Speaker B:You were a vital part of the Washington Bullets and their success.
Speaker B:And later, you were reserved for the Showtime Lakers.
Speaker B:And people may not remember the Showtime Lakers, but they were a tremendous ball club under Pat riley.
Speaker B:You won three NBA titles as a player.
Speaker B:Mitch, across the two teams, the 78 champion Bullets, the 82 champion Lakers, which team did you find yourself more valuable for?
Speaker C:Well,.
Speaker D:The championship in 78, you know, I was 24 years old.
Speaker D:I was healthy.
Speaker D:You know, I felt, you know, I could compete athletically with anybody.
Speaker D:And we had a really good team of veterans.
Speaker D:Elvin Hayes, Wes Unsell, Bobby Dandruff, they're all in the hall of Fame.
Speaker D:And that was pretty cool to win the championship at 24.
Speaker D:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:But then I go to Los Angeles and I get injured and I end up having my knee, you know, reconstructed.
Speaker D:They didn't know how to do the ACLs yet.
Speaker D:They were just learning.
Speaker D:And I missed a couple of years, you know, and then when I came back, I had to wear a big brace and I was no longer, you know, the player that could run the floor and athletically play with most players.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker D:I was.
Speaker D:Yeah, I was relegated to more of a backup role, you know, rather than be the starting power forward next to Kareem.
Speaker D:I was backing up Kareem.
Speaker D:Having said that, yeah, I wasn't sure if I was ever going to play again.
Speaker D:And, you know, we did end up.
Speaker D:We lost to the Celtics in Boston in 84.
Speaker D:And then we came back and we beat them in Boston in game six in 85.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker D:And, yeah, because of missing a couple of years and not knowing if I was ever going to play again, that had a Special meaning very different than the one I did in Washington when I was 24 years old.
Speaker B:And you were healthy?
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker B:Now, for those unfamiliar, Mitch, I'd just like you to describe what that means.
Speaker B:The Showtime Lakers.
Speaker D:Well, the point guard was Magic Johnson.
Speaker D:And we were a team that could really run the floor.
Speaker D:And we had players that could finish at the rim.
Speaker D:Guys like Michael Cooper, James Worthy, Byron Scott, Kurt Rambis.
Speaker D:And quite frankly, it was a fun team to watch play.
Speaker D:And Magic was the linchpin.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:You know, at 6, 8, 6, 9, he can grab a rebound and lead the break.
Speaker D:And he would always find you.
Speaker D:You know, you would not even think that he would see you.
Speaker D:And you're saying to yourself, well, why should I run the floor?
Speaker D:He doesn't see me.
Speaker D:But he always did.
Speaker D:And he had a flair.
Speaker D:He passed one way, looked the other way.
Speaker D:And I think being in Los Angeles with the Hollywood thing, I think that's probably where the Showtime thing came into it.
Speaker D:But Pat Riley, we may have been the Showtime Lakers, but Pat Riley was a taskmaster.
Speaker D:You know, in practice, our practice was very physical.
Speaker D:You know, no rings, no rebounding, no rings.
Speaker D:You know, we thought we were a physical team as well.
Speaker D:But as I mentioned, you know, the Showtime thing, quite frankly, it was a fun team to watch play.
Speaker B:Yeah, that is true.
Speaker B:That is true, Mitch.
Speaker B:Now, when you go to the front office, you were under the great hall of Famer, Jerry West.
Speaker B:What did Jerry inculcate in you to become such a success in the front office?
Speaker D:I'm not sure what that means.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:It's an SAT word.
Speaker B:Mitch, what'd you do on the SATs?
Speaker D:I did better on the math than.
Speaker C:I did on the math.
Speaker B:All right, there you go.
Speaker B:What did you learn under the great Jerry west that made you a success in the front office?
Speaker C:Well,.
Speaker D:My last year as a player in 86, I injured my knee twice more.
Speaker D:And Jerry was working by himself in the front office.
Speaker D:Bill Charman was with him, but Bill had lost his voice.
Speaker D:And Bill, I mean, that's a name that a lot of the older basketball people should know that name.
Speaker D:Bill Sherman, Right, right.
Speaker D:I think he played 10, 12 years with the Celtics.
Speaker D:NBA coaching champion and, you know, NBA GM, too.
Speaker B:But he also played with the Brooklyn Dodgers, Mitch.
Speaker B:And a lot of people don't know.
Speaker D:Yeah, he was.
Speaker D:He was on the bench when Bobby Thompson hit the home run, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker D:He told me the story.
Speaker D:He was on the bench as a late season call up.
Speaker D:Okay, good.
Speaker D:That's.
Speaker D:You Got that.
Speaker D:Good.
Speaker D:So, anyway, Jerry just said to me, mitch, you know, whenever you're ready to retire, I can use some help in the front office.
Speaker D:And when he said that, you know, I just called my representative and I said, hey, this is what Jerry just said.
Speaker D:Now's the time.
Speaker D:And, you know, I retired.
Speaker D:And within a month, I was.
Speaker D:I was his assistant.
Speaker D:And it was just the two of us in the front office back then.
Speaker D:And, you know, he just kept on spending time with me.
Speaker D:We used to scout games together, drive to San Diego, drive to Santa Barbara, go to Utah, UCLA games, USC games.
Speaker D:We would go to scouting venues together.
Speaker D:He would just keep on giving me more and more to do and involved me in everything because there was nobody else.
Speaker D:I mean, today there's 30, 40 people in the front office.
Speaker D: This was: Speaker D:There was nobody.
Speaker D:And, you know, he just took me under his wing.
Speaker D:And I mentioned earlier Coach Kellner and Dean Smith, and the third guy, you know, was Jerry west, right.
Speaker D:You know, how fortunate, you know, a kid, you know, from Long island, right, gets to end up, you know, working, you know, for Jerry, first of all, playing for him for five years and then also, you know, working with him in the front office for 14 years.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And you had the three peat continuity, Mitch out there with the Lakers, and then along comes Pau Gasol, and you pulled off a coup, acquiring him from the Grizzlies.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:It turned out to be, you know, you never know at the time, right?
Speaker D:He was, I think he was fourth, maybe fifth year in the NBA.
Speaker D:Yeah, maybe he was fifth, sixth.
Speaker D:I'm not even sure.
Speaker D:He was so young when he got there.
Speaker D:And you're thinking, well, we're giving up a lot.
Speaker D:We're giving up a lot of picks.
Speaker D:We're giving up good, young players, but, you know, you think he's going to fit right in.
Speaker D:And then when we made the deal, you know, we were fortunate that we were able to keep it really quiet and, you know, very similar to that Luka Doncic deal and, you know, the deal with the Lakers and Dallas where nobody knew about it, because if his word got out, then I think it would have became very competitive to get him, and we probably wouldn't have got him.
Speaker D:But getting him and putting him next to Kobe Bryant, you know, ended up, you know, getting us into the Finals, you know, for three more years, and we won two more championships.
Speaker D:And of course, you know, Powell's in the hall of Fame, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not a bad career.
Speaker B:Now, you also signed some great free agents, Mitch Guys like Karl Malone, Gary Payton, they took pay cuts, actually, to come out to LA and try to win another championship.
Speaker D:Yeah, you know, being in la, you have an advantage.
Speaker D:First of all, we were a team that, you know, were poised, you know, to win.
Speaker D:And there was a lot of players that played on teams, you know, like Portland, you know, or Seattle, where Gary was.
Speaker D:He couldn't get past us.
Speaker D:So, you know, if you can't get past them, then maybe you should join them.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:So Gary joined us.
Speaker D:Carl, you know, Utah couldn't get past us either, so he joined us to try to win now.
Speaker D:And we got to the finals that year and Carl hurt his knee and we ended up losing to Detroit.
Speaker D:But that team was.
Speaker D:Was really talented, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Pau Gasol, Kobe Bryant, you know, you know, another player that people that they don't really talk about too much, and he got injured.
Speaker D:So his career was not what it could have been.
Speaker D:But a kid from New Jersey, Andrew Bynum.
Speaker D:Andrew Bynum, we drafted that in high school, and he helped us win two championships.
Speaker D:But had he not gotten hurt, he might be in the hall of Fame today.
Speaker B:You're right.
Speaker B:Well, Mitch, plenty more to talk about, but we're out of time.
Speaker B:I'm sure the guys would love to have you back.
Speaker B:Will you come back and talk to us again?
Speaker D:Absolutely.
Speaker D:Anytime.
Speaker B:Wonderful.
Speaker B:It's been a pleasure.
Speaker B:I thank you for taking time out of your Sunday night to be with us up here in Long Island.
Speaker B:All the best to you and the family, Mitch, and thanks for the memories.
Speaker D:All good.
Speaker D:Thank you so much.
Speaker D:Enjoy being on the show.
Speaker B:That is the great Mitch Kupchak, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker B:That'll do it for me tonight on Sports Talk New York.
Speaker B:I'd like to thank my guests, Rick Wise and Mitch Kupchak, my engineer, Brian Graves, and and of course, you guys for joining us.
Speaker B:I will see you Next on Sunday, October 4, 8pm Eastern Standard Time for more Sports Talk New York.
Speaker B:Till then, be safe, be well.
Speaker B:Bill Donahue, wishing you a good evening, folks.
Speaker A:The views expressed in the previous program did not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgbb.
