Episode 240
The Psychology of Winning: Insights from George Mumford
In our latest discussion, hosts Mike Guidone and Chris Caputo were honored to host the esteemed sports psychologist George Mumford, who imparts invaluable insights into the intricate relationship between mindfulness and athletic performance. Central to our conversation is the notion that mindfulness serves not merely as a tool for enhancing performance but as a comprehensive approach to nurturing the athlete's entire being. George recounts his transformative journey from aspiring basketball player to a renowned mental health advocate, illustrating how his personal challenges paved the way for his unique contributions to the realm of sports psychology. Throughout the episode, we delve into his experiences working alongside legendary athletes, including Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, emphasizing the profound impact of mental resilience in achieving peak performance. Join us as we explore these pivotal themes and glean wisdom from George Mumford's remarkable career in guiding athletes toward excellence through mindfulness.
Show Details
Hosts Mike Guidone and Chris Caputo welcome renowned sports psychologist George Mumford, who delves deeply into the intersection of mindfulness, performance, and mental health in sports. Mumford, who has an extensive background working with elite athletes, articulates the profound impact that mindfulness practices can have on achieving peak performance. He recounts his own journey from an aspiring basketball player to a sports psychologist, shedding light on how personal struggles with addiction and chronic pain led him to discover the transformative power of mindfulness. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, he emphasizes the necessity of integrating mental health strategies within athletic training programs, thereby highlighting the often-overlooked psychological dimensions of sports performance. Throughout the discussion, Mumford demonstrates that the road to success involves not only physical prowess but also mental resilience, urging athletes to embrace mindfulness as a tool for enhancing both their performance and overall well-being.
Takeaways:
- Mindfulness plays a crucial role in enhancing athletic performance and managing stress, according to sports psychologist George Mumford.
- The importance of self-awareness and self-regulation in athletes cannot be overstated, as it allows for better performance under pressure.
- Mumford highlights the significance of a supportive team environment and how it fosters individual growth and collective success.
- Transforming how athletes interpret experiences can lead to a more positive mindset and improved performance outcomes.
- Athletes often struggle with their identity tied to performance, necessitating a broader understanding of self beyond their sport.
- The journey of personal transformation and recovery, as shared by Mumford, emphasizes the importance of resilience in both sports and life.
Transcript
The views expressed in the following program do not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgbb.
Speaker B:Live from the WGBB studios in Merritt.
Speaker C:New York, this is SPORTS Talk New York.
Speaker A:A very happy Sunday, everyone, and welcome to Long Island WGBB Sports Talk New York.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Mike Widone, joined as always by my co host, the man we call Cappy, Chris Caputo.
Speaker A:Phone line is open.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A: Again, that's: Speaker A:Interesting weekend as it always is, the in between, as they call it when you have media time, basketball, hockey.
Speaker A:But really, you know, everyone's thinking super bowl, but we're going to hold off on that.
Speaker A:But before we get to anything, Cap, welcome back.
Speaker A:Good to have you in the studio again.
Speaker B:Same here.
Speaker B:Glad you were able to get through all the tough weather of two weeks ago and here we are with plenty of sports here in the New York area and another night of enjoying good guests on the line and you know, again, letting people sit back, relax and listen to something different.
Speaker A:Yeah, we have a very, very special guest on with us tonight.
Speaker A:We'll be getting to Mr.
Speaker A:George Munford in just one second.
Speaker A:But yeah, as we said, this is, you know, big time trades going on in basketball.
Speaker A:NCAA Basketball's trying to, you know, heat up here a little bit.
Speaker A:Baseball, hot stove.
Speaker A:We're going to get to a lot of that in the second half hour.
Speaker A:The Islanders are playing well, Rangers are making trades.
Speaker A:So a lot of New York sports.
Speaker A:But as we mentioned before, we get to it, our first guest tonight is a world renowned psychologist.
Speaker A:He works with teams throughout the world, specifically here in the Northeast.
Speaker A:His name is George Mumford.
Speaker A:He was an aspiring basketball player at UMass where he actually roomed with Long Island's own Dr.
Speaker A:J.
Speaker A:Came into some injuries unfortunately and he has a very interesting story about how he got into mindfulness and performance for top rate athletes.
Speaker A:And we're very, very excited to have him on.
Speaker A:Mr.
Speaker A:Mumford, thank you so much for joining us, Mike and Chris here on Long island tonight.
Speaker C:Hey, Mike.
Speaker C:Hey Chris.
Speaker C:Very happy to be here.
Speaker C:Excited to be here and yes, I'm looking forward to this conversation we're going to have.
Speaker C:Great.
Speaker B:So George, great to have you on.
Speaker B:This is Chris here.
Speaker B:Appreciate you giving us some time.
Speaker B:So let's just start from the beginning.
Speaker B:You're the roommate of Dr.
Speaker B:Julius Irving and eventually you come upon some injuries.
Speaker B:How did you go from being a college basketball player to what you're doing now?
Speaker B:Just give us a little bit of an intro of how that started and maybe some of the bumps in the road.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:So in my room with Dr.
Speaker C:J my sophomore year and going out for the basketball team, and we were playing pickup.
Speaker C:You know, in those days, it's very different.
Speaker C:We were playing pickup, and I got injured and my ankle, and that pretty much ended my career.
Speaker C:So then, you know, but I, you know, I stayed close to the basketball team and I was involved, you know, the balance of my years because I roomed with Julius.
Speaker C:And then when Julius went, you know, when he.
Speaker C:When he went into the aba, I went with Al Skin and was another New York, Long island resident.
Speaker C:And so I got addicted to pain meds, and then I got addicted to heroin and alcohol and.
Speaker C:But I was a very functional.
Speaker C:And I had two lives.
Speaker C:I had life where I was Joe College and the other life where I was doing the other stuff.
Speaker C:And so I was functional substance abuser.
Speaker C: And then in: Speaker C:And when I got out of detox, I realized I had chronic pain.
Speaker C:So I had to figure out how to manage the chronic pain without using painkillers.
Speaker C:And so I got introduced to stress management, and I learned about the mind body process and learned about mindfulness.
Speaker C:But mainly what I learned about is that the mind and body connected and I'm responsible for my health care.
Speaker C:It wasn't enough for me to go to a physician and have them give me a pill or cut something out.
Speaker C:It was more about me taking an active role and changing my lifestyle that focused more on prevention and maintenance.
Speaker C:And so that's how I got into it, and I continued to do that.
Speaker C:And then I started teaching.
Speaker C:And then I wanted to stay involved with athletics, so then I applied it to athletics.
Speaker C:But I was a financial analyst for 16 years, so I had to lead that life and took a couple years off to figure out where I wanted to be when I grew up.
Speaker C:And I happened to be watching the Power of Myth during that time when I was still in corporate and I was about to leave.
Speaker C:And Joseph Campbell talked about following your bliss.
Speaker C:And he said, if you follow your bliss, well, first of all, you find bliss.
Speaker C:But the universe will collude with you and doors will open where there were no doors.
Speaker C:And I found myself working at the mindfulness space.
Speaker C:Stress reduction is what they call it now.
Speaker C:But in those days, I worked for the medical center for five years in the prevention and behavioral medicine department.
Speaker C:And then that's when we started applying mindfulness based technologies.
Speaker C:And skill sets to people in hospitals, in jails, institutions, and also working with corporate clients and whatnot.
Speaker C:So that's how I got into it.
Speaker C:And while I was there, we used to offer a.
Speaker C:A training at.
Speaker C:In New York, in Rhinebeck, New York, a place called.
Speaker C:Forget what the name of the place is, but anyway, that's what Phil used to teach, a program called, you know, Beyond Basketball or something like that.
Speaker C:He had a teammate when he played for the next by the name of Eddie Master.
Speaker C:And Eddie Math had a heart attack.
Speaker C:So he used to do this.
Speaker C:Run this program in the summer to help raise money for the family.
Speaker C:And while he was there, he got it.
Speaker C:He knew my.
Speaker C:My boss, my friend John Katrin.
Speaker C:And he was talking to John about wanting to bring somebody into training camp.
Speaker C: This was: Speaker C:They had just won three NBA championships.
Speaker C:And so Phil and I talked and we agreed that I would come to training camp.
Speaker C:And in the meantime, Michael Jordan finally got murdered.
Speaker C:And Michael Jordan retired.
Speaker C: to the Bulls training camp in: Speaker C:I ended up working with Phil over 30 years, you know, been involved in eight NBA championships.
Speaker C:And he asked me.
Speaker C: y worked with the Knicks from: Speaker C:So I spent a couple of years working with the Knicks and specifically with the players.
Speaker C:And one of them right here in Boston, Chrisingis, he was one of the guys that I worked with for a couple of years.
Speaker C:So that's how I got into it.
Speaker C:And of course I've been lucky enough to work with elite athletes like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal.
Speaker C:I worked with a lot of different teams.
Speaker C:I worked over in England with Chelsea, some of the premier teams.
Speaker C:I worked with Olympic athletes, worked with corporate executives and Olympians.
Speaker C:And so that's kind of how I got into it.
Speaker C:But the main thing for me was, and I wrote a couple of books.
Speaker C: re Performance, that came out: Speaker C:They're coming up in 10 years, I believe next month.
Speaker C:15 years since it came out.
Speaker C:And then I wrote a book in 90, 93 called Unlocked, Embrace youe Greatness, Find the Flow.
Speaker C:That was a success.
Speaker C:So I've been in, you know, doing this stuff for quite a while.
Speaker C:I'm in my.
Speaker C:Let me see.
Speaker C:In July, I celebrated 40 years of sobriety.
Speaker C:So congratulations.
Speaker C:And sober for 40 years and six months.
Speaker A:That in itself is something to celebrate and Congratulations on that.
Speaker A:Once again, we're speaking with George Montford, sports psychologist who specializes in mindfulness based stress reduction programs, has worked with many teams.
Speaker A: st teams you worked with, the: Speaker A:If you could go back to that and your first experience there, how did the team itself handle at that point, you coming in?
Speaker A:It was really.
Speaker A:I mean, mindfulness is something right now that is a wonderful thing that you hear quite a bit in society and you see members of all shapes and sizes doing it for their own health.
Speaker A: would assume probably back in: Speaker A:Can you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Well, it was legitimized for a couple of reasons.
Speaker C:Number one, I roomed with Dr.
Speaker C:J.
Speaker C:So I had street cred.
Speaker C:And I was working at a medical center.
Speaker C:So this wasn't coming out of like a yoga center or meditation center.
Speaker C:It was coming out of preventive and behavioral medicine.
Speaker C:And we had research and I work with people who weren't necessarily helped by the medical profession.
Speaker C:So this was kind of like mind body medicine.
Speaker C:And the thing is, even though people talk about being a mindfulness expert, I'm really a performance expert.
Speaker C:But mindfulness is part of the process.
Speaker C:But I've always been focused on performance people being able to express themselves honestly, fully.
Speaker C:So it's beyond sports.
Speaker C:It's really about a way of being, because I'm sharing my experience, strength and hope, how I got over my substance abuse and my chronic pain and actually trying to find a way to earn a living and at the same time work for the highest good, helping people, being a servant.
Speaker C:And so to me, a big part of my process has been this idea of.
Speaker C:Of wanting to serve and this idea of if you want something, you got to give it away.
Speaker C:And if you want to learn something, you have to teach it.
Speaker B:So George, kind of run us through.
Speaker B:Whether you're with the Bulls or the Lakers or the Knicks.
Speaker B:You know, when you're being asked to come in by Phil Jackson, is this just kind of you sit back and practice and watch and then decide what to do or do you have a.
Speaker C:Yes, thank you.
Speaker C:While I was training as a psychotherapist also.
Speaker C:But the main thing in group and organizational development, that's, you know, team working with teams and whatnot.
Speaker C:It really, it really was, it was cutting edge.
Speaker C:So it's never Been done like this before.
Speaker C:So it was really a matter of me going in and observing and trying to help on the fly.
Speaker C:That's the thing that is very funny when I think about it now, it's like I just knew I wanted to serve and I didn't know how, but I knew if I talked about performance and I talked about being in the zone and how to be a spiritual warrior, if you will, that how to have a certain level of toughness, to be able to, you know, physically do what you mentally commit to and how to deal with stress.
Speaker C:The stress is real, it's there.
Speaker C:And when you're an athlete, there's a lot of anxiety.
Speaker C:There's always anxiety around, anxiety of getting hurt, the anxiety of not being selected, the anxiety of, you know, making mistakes and causing your team to lose a game.
Speaker C:So it's really about teaching people how to, how to live in life, how to manage the moment, because that's what it comes down to.
Speaker C:But everybody wants, you know, everybody had his own experience of been in flow, they understand that.
Speaker C:So when I started talking to them about that and about performing at that, they know at their highest, you know, the peak performance or just what I call pure performance, teaching them how to get better and talking to them about, okay, MJ's not coming back, but this is an opportunity.
Speaker C:So the big thing is when I go in and work with people, I get the insight and then I figure out how to apply what I'm doing.
Speaker C:So basically it comes down to this idea of, you know, I go in and you say, what do you want?
Speaker C:And sometimes people don't know what they want.
Speaker C:But I believe everybody wants to perform and feel good about their performance and about themselves as a person.
Speaker C:So it's really about development, developing the whole person, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually.
Speaker C:And a lot of times we get hung up on the outer game or the physical game.
Speaker C:Not understanding that your mind could either trip you up or help you to excel.
Speaker C:And so it's really more about bringing the mind, body, experience to people and getting people to understand that you have this ability to be self aware, which allows you to be able to self regulate.
Speaker C:And what I mean by self regulators, something happens, you can choose.
Speaker C:If you can create space between stimulus and response, then you can choose in alignment with what your goals and who you say you want to be.
Speaker C:So it's about transformation, it's about understanding how, as Bruce Lee would talk about martial arts, in terms of being able to honestly express yourself, but you got to be you.
Speaker C:So it's Got to start with you so you got to know who you are so you can be who you are, so you can express yourself, so you can share yourself.
Speaker C:So I know that sounds cliche, but it really is that simple.
Speaker C:But it's not easy.
Speaker C:Everybody's.
Speaker C:Everybody's unique.
Speaker C:You know my book, the Mindful Athlete, I talk about this idea of being the eye of the hurricane.
Speaker C:There's a place, a quiet place in us that we can access, that allows us to be able to.
Speaker C:To be equanimous, to be able to.
Speaker C:As Joseph Campbell talked about in the Power of Myth, he talked about an athlete who's in championship form.
Speaker C:And you gotta understand he was an elite athlete at Columbia, besides being a scholar and a jazz musician.
Speaker C:So he could talk about when you come out of that quiet place, that place of rest where you're not compelled by fear or desire, you can hold your center and you can choose.
Speaker C:You can create space, or you can choose an alignment, who you want to be and where you want to go.
Speaker C:And this is the thing we don't know.
Speaker C:This place is inside of us.
Speaker C:It's an inside job.
Speaker C:It's not somebody giving you something.
Speaker C:Or when I work with people or when I go and help people, I'm not fixing anybody.
Speaker C:All I'm doing is helping people in love.
Speaker C:All I'm doing is helping people get to the masterpiece that's already there and to express themselves.
Speaker C:Whether you want to call it Christ consciousness or Buddha nature or the mind, Spock, or.
Speaker C:I call it the masterpiece.
Speaker C:But we all have it.
Speaker C:And we all have a uniqueness and something special to offer to the world.
Speaker C:But the real question is, do we have the courage and the tenacity to go inside and embrace it, to access it and share it with us?
Speaker B:Again, we're talking with George Mumford about sports performance among professional athletes and beyond.
Speaker B:George worked with Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, many of the New York Knicks, as well as people in other sports.
Speaker B:But quote from Kobe Bryant, George helped me understand the art of mindfulness.
Speaker B:To be neither distracted or focused, rigid or flexible, passive or aggressive.
Speaker B:I just learned to be.
Speaker B:Can you talk a little bit about the work you do with people like Kobe and you know what it's like.
Speaker B:Is it kind of for you afterwards, do you feel a little bit of grace to understand that you're helping people at the top of their profession who you think maybe these guys are set and they don't need anything to be able to perform even better?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, the interesting thing is things change.
Speaker C:You Know, you get old, it's it.
Speaker C:You die, you get injured.
Speaker C:You know, just think of Luca.
Speaker C:You know, you're on one team one day, the next day you're trading.
Speaker C:You have no idea what's going on.
Speaker C:That's the way the life is.
Speaker C:It's always throwing us curves.
Speaker C:And so teaching people how to have the growth, mindset where you're looking at, okay, what's the lesson here?
Speaker C:What do I need to learn?
Speaker C:And how do I relate to this situation in a way that inspires me, moves me, and actually allows me to access my latent abilities?
Speaker C:And so I know that sounds cliche, but the formula is there's no formula.
Speaker C:But you have to really get clear about who you are and where you're going.
Speaker C:Like, well, what's your intention from moment to moment?
Speaker C:But in terms of, you know, sometimes the ultimate question is, you know, do you live in a friendly or unfriendly universe?
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And that's the most important question, because if you live in a unfriendly universe, then you're more apt to use all your resources to destroy or deny the threat.
Speaker C:But if, you know, you live in a friendly universe and there's a lawfulness to it, then you align yourself with how things are, with, you know, so it's hokey, but integrity and honesty and.
Speaker C:Yeah, integrity, honesty, you know, having.
Speaker C:Having character really matters.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And so that's what I'm teaching people.
Speaker C:How to be a whole person, but how to be, you know.
Speaker C:You know, live.
Speaker C:Live, you know, honestly and.
Speaker C:And having character and having integrity to do what you say you're going to do, to be.
Speaker C:To get to the place where people can rely on you when you give them your word, when you say, okay, I'm going to give you my best.
Speaker C:I'm going to leave everything on the court.
Speaker C:And it's interesting because some of my favorite experience.
Speaker C:My favorite experiences are working with teams that are not really good, but they work beyond, you know, they perform beyond their potential because they give you everything they want.
Speaker C:That's a winner.
Speaker C:A winner is somebody can walk away and say, yeah, we lost, but I gave.
Speaker C:I was better today, and I gave everything I had.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker C:So it's about authenticity, about really honestly expressing yourself and realizing that in and of itself is enough.
Speaker C:And it's interesting because, you know, I work with hockey players and I work with, you know, football players.
Speaker C:I work with all the sports and all the people.
Speaker C:People have this idea that, okay, if you don't win a Stanley cup or if you don't Win an NBA championship or a Super bowl, then you're not as great as the other person.
Speaker C:Well, there's only one, one team that wins the super bowl every year.
Speaker C:And then the other 30 or whatever team, number of teams, you know, they're not going to win.
Speaker C:And not everybody's going to win a Super Bowl.
Speaker C:Not everybody's going to win a Stanley cup or NBA championship.
Speaker C:But that's.
Speaker C:But you don't let somebody identify who you are.
Speaker C:Like you can have a job, you know, as a school teacher and you're having a huge impact on the students.
Speaker C:You know, I had a teacher in the eighth grade, Mr.
Speaker C:Dubose, and I had my best grade in English because he believed in me.
Speaker C:Wasn't what taught me, it was how he related to me and inspired me to be my best.
Speaker B:Thank you, George.
Speaker B:Because you are a teacher too.
Speaker B:I know that's what you put as your occupation on your passport.
Speaker B:But being a teacher is one of the best things that you can do.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Because you have, you have an ability, you have the sacred trust to actually help somebody be who they are and to actually model that for them and also to inspire and trust them because you may be the only sane adult that they deal with all day.
Speaker A:Well, you really hit on that also because Chris and I are both teachers as our profession and coaches.
Speaker A:And the things you touched on here about making that impact are so true and what keep us going.
Speaker A:George, I wanted to ask you.
Speaker A:Last year you worked, you mentioned hockey and you worked with the Edmonton Oilers.
Speaker A:When a team like Edmonton gives you a call and brings you in, is it that you meet?
Speaker A:Do you meet individually with each player at first?
Speaker A:Do you speak to the team?
Speaker A:How does it work?
Speaker A:Or is it just kind of depending on what each team is looking for from you?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, thanks for asking that.
Speaker C:But if you're going to really.
Speaker C:So it's interesting.
Speaker C:So when I go and I work with everybody, the coaches, the players, individually, collectively the organization, and that's what it was with Phil.
Speaker C:When I work with Phil's teams, all the teams.
Speaker C:But sometimes they just want me to work with the players or just want to work with the team.
Speaker C:And that's fine.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:But when everybody is all in.
Speaker C:Because it takes a village, man.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker C:It takes a whole organization.
Speaker C:So from, you know, I, I say, you know, I know we hear all the time and we're about to hear it again, this idea of trickle down economics.
Speaker C:You know, rich people get money and they going to come to us.
Speaker C:I don't believe in that.
Speaker C:But what I do believe in is when you have people at the top that get it and relate to you as a whole person and they care about you, not just what you do, but they care about you and your life, then it trickles down.
Speaker C:So if you have the CEO in this case, and then you know, general manager and the coaches and administrators and the support staff and you know, the captains and then the individual players, now you're into something because everybody is on the same page and it's a, it's a, it's a unified front.
Speaker C:You get what I'm saying?
Speaker C:And then everybody feels like it's not Michael's team, it's our team.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And everybody, everybody has a job.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:George, you have to kind of work with each individual about what they have to do in those pressure situations in practice to get ready.
Speaker B:I think that's kind of what you were brought into, is to deal with each individual.
Speaker C:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker C:And so, but it's the same thing as I'm working with them collectively and individually because one size doesn't fit all.
Speaker C:You know that when you teach, you know, you, if you do this, you want to lose some people, but you don't really have the time.
Speaker C:You have the time you got to spend with individuals.
Speaker C:Not everybody's into it, but if you get a, if you get a core group and then eventually people get into it because they understand that who doesn't want love, who doesn't want respect, who doesn't want people to care about them?
Speaker C:And that's what I do.
Speaker C:I'm just giving them unconditional love and I'm relating to them as masterpieces, not as somebody I'm trying to fix.
Speaker A:Now that's a great point too, because I'm sure with a professional athlete, or even a high level athlete, whoever you've dealt with on those levels, they have, since they're a young age, I would assume, identify with their skill.
Speaker A:And they are very often lauded and appreciated for what they can do.
Speaker A:And they feel that if their performance isn't what it needs to be, that as a person, their identity is kind of lost.
Speaker A:So I'm sure you've encountered that quite a bit where an athlete, their whole self worth is based on what they're doing on the court, on the ice, or their results.
Speaker C:Yes, well, I experienced that in college.
Speaker C:I was no longer a student athlete.
Speaker C:Who was I?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:So I struggled with that and I was identified with it.
Speaker C:But the late, great Bill Russell, when I read this in one of the books he wrote, I don't know if it was.
Speaker C:I forget which book it was.
Speaker C:But anyway, he was him and John Havlicek.
Speaker C:I know I'm dating myself.
Speaker C:They were out and about, and the guy came over to Bill ruther, who was 6 10, and said that you're a basketball player.
Speaker C:And Bill Watson said, no.
Speaker C:And so when the guy walked away, Havocek said, russ, why did you tell him they're not a basketball player?
Speaker C:And this was Russell's response, Because that's what I do.
Speaker C:That's not who I am.
Speaker C:Who I am.
Speaker C:And see, that's the thing with me that got me stuck, because I was identified as a basketball player and I was quiet, so I expressed myself that way.
Speaker C:But then I didn't have that.
Speaker C:I didn't know who I was.
Speaker C:And if you don't know who you are, you can end up being anybody.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And if you don't know where you're going, you could end up going anywhere.
Speaker C:So I had to figure out who I wanted to or, you know, find my real self.
Speaker C:And that was a lot.
Speaker C:A lot of years.
Speaker C:So I became a financial analyst because my high school coach told me that accountants make a lot of money.
Speaker B:Again, we're talking with George Mumford, and we're talking about different sports performance, and you work with people in other sports, too.
Speaker B:But let's just go right back to basketball.
Speaker B:One of the quotes, I think you said was kind of talking about people not just winning one little thing, but like.
Speaker B:Or getting better a little bit.
Speaker B:But, you know, for Michael Jordan, one of the things for him is he went from Mike to Michael Jordan after winning the NCAA championship with North Carolina.
Speaker B:You know, those are like, how do you help athletes kind of get to those big steps in those pressure situations to become something that maybe they weren't before?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So you've seen that situation where Michael made the shot, and it took him to another level.
Speaker C:I want to go back to Kobe Bryant's, his encounter with the NBA playoffs.
Speaker C:And in Crunch, he shot like two or three airballs.
Speaker C:And I think they got swept.
Speaker C:I think they got swept by the Jazz or somebody.
Speaker C:But anyway, you know what he did when he got back to Newport Beach?
Speaker C:Only Kobe would do this.
Speaker C:He called the custodian and asked him to open the gym.
Speaker C:And so he opened the gym, and Kobe shot for eight hours.
Speaker A:Unbelievable.
Speaker C:And so that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker C:So an elite athlete, you can tell elite performance number one, they have what they call.
Speaker C:And Shawna Corps wrote a book called Having this Advantage, and some of his research talks about the three things that help us predict our success to a significant degree.
Speaker C:And anything that we take any, you know, like, if it's a job or something, the three things that are involved.
Speaker C:And one of them is what you call positive genius, or like I like to say, to get to the hall of fame, the hof, you have to have hope, optimism, and faith.
Speaker C:So the first thing is your ability to interpret experience.
Speaker C:And when you have a good experience, like what you talked about, mj, then that changes your self image.
Speaker C:You realize, oh, anything's possible and if I work hard, yeah, you know, I can achieve.
Speaker C:And so this idea of remembering past successes is really helpful.
Speaker C:We tend to focus on our past failures, and by thinking about it that way, we minimize how we see ourselves, that we actually have less confidence.
Speaker C:And so when you have something, part of what I do is catch people doing something.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But what I'm talking about is you have to be able to understand your strengths and weaknesses and how to leverage your strengths and realize that when you make mistakes, when you have a difficult time, it's really an opportunity to grow.
Speaker C:So when I talked about the positive genius, social support, so that means us and the people in there where we encourage each other and we inspire each other, we hold each other accountable, you know, with mutual benefit, mutual respect.
Speaker C:So this is what you have.
Speaker C:If you have somebody that knows how to keep their mind in hope, optimism, and faith, or looking at the glass half full, very different.
Speaker C:That's a growth mindset.
Speaker C:And you have people around you to support you and love you and love you as you are, not as they want you to be.
Speaker C:And then the third thing is when you see things as a challenge, not as a curse.
Speaker C:So that was the first thing I did with the bulges.
Speaker C:Like, okay, there's danger here.
Speaker C:Danger has two meanings.
Speaker C:One meaning is danger.
Speaker C:I mean, you know, crisis has two meanings.
Speaker C:One meaning is danger, which we get.
Speaker C:But the other one we don't get is opportunity.
Speaker C:Now, people got to step up.
Speaker C:It's an opportunity for somebody to show they know.
Speaker C:So that's it.
Speaker C:So when you.
Speaker C:So whatever happens to you, something happens, you get to choose whether you're going to react or respond to it.
Speaker C:And if you don't choose and you make a mistake, you still can correct it.
Speaker C:But this is what Victor Frankel, the Holocaust survivor, said that ultimate freedom is when you get confronted with unavoidable suffering, that you get to choose the attitude you're going to have in relation to that.
Speaker C:So when I wrote my book and I talked about my substance abuse and whatnot.
Speaker C:People said, well, why would you go and talk about that?
Speaker C:And I said, you don't understand that.
Speaker C:Without that, I wouldn't be where I am or doing what I'm doing.
Speaker C:So Victor Prankel says, when you find meaning and suffering, it ceases to be suffering.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:Points.
Speaker A:And, George, I wanted to ask you, with all the athletes and teams that you've worked with throughout your years, obviously you've taught them from your background and your expertise.
Speaker A:I'm sure there's probably more than one.
Speaker A:But is there one athlete or moment that you can take off the top of your head that changed you in working with one of these folks?
Speaker C:Well, not.
Speaker C:They all do.
Speaker C:Yeah, I'm sure they all do.
Speaker C:But it's like, so.
Speaker C:So I talk about this because it's really important, because we talk about what a winner is.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And when I.
Speaker C:When I was.
Speaker C: Let me see, in: Speaker C:And Phil moved on.
Speaker C:He took that year off.
Speaker C:And I didn't have a lot of work, so I started volunteering at Boston College because my other roommate, Al Kinnon, was a coach there.
Speaker C:So I just volunteered and I worked with this team.
Speaker C:And this team was.
Speaker C:I mean, they were.
Speaker C:You know, they were really bad.
Speaker C:They were like 6 and 21.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:We used to follow them.
Speaker C:21 losses.
Speaker C:And then in the Big east, they were like two wins and.
Speaker C:Was it two wins and.
Speaker C:I think it was.
Speaker C:They played two wins and 13.
Speaker C:13.
Speaker C:Two or something like two and 13 or some crazy number like that.
Speaker C:And so we.
Speaker C:We would play and I'd work with them, and we lose by 40 points.
Speaker C:And you.
Speaker C:I look at the team.
Speaker C:We look at the team and say, you know something?
Speaker C:They gave us everything they had.
Speaker C:You know, they just left.
Speaker C:You know, they just weren't good.
Speaker C:So that was the first year.
Speaker C:Then the second year, they were like, I want to say, 11 and 18 or some.
Speaker C:You know, it wasn't much better.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But they had lost 12 games in a row in the last possession.
Speaker C:And I think at the end of the season, our star player, Troy Bell, had a meniscus here, so he didn't even play.
Speaker C:We played against Villanova.
Speaker C:We knocked him out of the ncaa.
Speaker C:We beat him at home.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And then the next year and the third year, and it's interesting because it was.
Speaker C:We were going to Europe, and so we're having practice in August, and I'm sitting around, I'm looking At the guys and the self talk of the team was telling me something.
Speaker C:They said, you know, everybody comes in here and they beat us by 30, 40 this year we're beating everybody by 20.
Speaker C:And that year we ended up being, I want to say, 27 and 5 or something like that.
Speaker C:We won the Big east tournament and we were 13 and 2.
Speaker C:We.
Speaker C:We were working for the thing Al got coaching year, something like that.
Speaker C:Yeah, but.
Speaker C:But what, but what happened was.
Speaker C:And you know what their record at home was?
Speaker A:What's that?
Speaker C:17 0.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker C:And they have average victory was 22 points.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker B:So assistant coach Ed Cooley, I saw.
Speaker C:That when they had a vision of possibility, they said, this is what we're going to do.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:So when somebody.
Speaker C:Somebody makes something important, watch out.
Speaker C:Yes, watch out.
Speaker C:And so I saw that.
Speaker C:But it was all of the.
Speaker C:Because so they were so bad in the first year that everything we told them or whatever we did, they were very compliant and they understood it.
Speaker C:So that's why I say sometimes you got to have the AOF method of motivation, which is ass on fire.
Speaker C:You have to have a sense of urgency.
Speaker C:But once you have a sense of urgency.
Speaker C:And then they started and then there were a couple of players that really transformed.
Speaker C:We didn't think they were going to.
Speaker C:And then they just, they just came together.
Speaker C:I think having that European trip when they were together for a couple of weeks, I think a lot of things, but it was the process.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker C:And I've seen this happen many times where, you know, you just keep the process and it's one plus one won't equal two, it'll equal three or four.
Speaker C:And so I had this experience when I was even working with the Bulls, you know, when Michael wasn't there.
Speaker C:We still won a lot of games that first year.
Speaker C:The second year was a little bit different.
Speaker C:And then the third year when Michael came back and we lost in the playoffs, well, they got busy.
Speaker C:And then the next year is when we went 72 and 10.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:And then same thing with the Lakers, you know, we, you know, for a while there and Derek Fisher was hurt and we ended up going 151 in the playoffs.
Speaker C:And so at some point it's going to take off, but it's the discipline and the commitment, excellence.
Speaker C:And it's not just individual.
Speaker C:It's collectively and people understanding their roles and really buying in to this idea of one breath, one mind.
Speaker C:This idea of the strength of the wolf is in the pack, and the strength of the pack is in the wolf.
Speaker C:So it's yes.
Speaker C:And it's not either or.
Speaker C:It's not somebody's team.
Speaker C:It's our team.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:George is the author of two books, Unlocked and the Mindful Athlete.
Speaker A:And, George, before we wrap up and let you go, I just wanted to ask you.
Speaker A:This was really the first thing that kind of came to my mind as we had you on.
Speaker A:These relationships, I'm sure, are all based on trust.
Speaker A:And when you're talking with a professional athlete or just anyone within society, what can you do as someone who works with these folks and being able to gain that trust of someone who maybe at first is like, hey, I don't do this.
Speaker A:I don't talk to anybody.
Speaker A:I'm just on my own island.
Speaker A:And I'm not used to, you know, speaking to anybody for help.
Speaker C:What.
Speaker A:What can you do to try to break through that.
Speaker A:That facade?
Speaker C:Well, first of all, it's interesting.
Speaker C:It's not for those who need it.
Speaker C:It's for those who want it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:And so I talk to people about.
Speaker C:About focusing on what you want and focusing on what you do well.
Speaker C:And so I have this practice I call catching somebody doing something right.
Speaker C:And so, and we know this from the research, if.
Speaker C:If you know that there's a book on positivity, to be a positive when you're coaching somebody or teaching somebody, it's got to be a minimum three positive reflections to everyone negative, okay?
Speaker C:So we tend to focus on what's wrong and want to fix it instead of focusing on what's right.
Speaker C:And so if you're telling people, if you're catching people doing something right, and if you ever get it to the elite level, you got to get to 4 to 1, 5 to 1, 6 to 1.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And that's why when people start evolving and growing and transforming, they keep doing more and more and they get to that five positive to everyone, negative.
Speaker C:But it's teaching people and just.
Speaker C:It's trust and commitment, but me being transparent.
Speaker C:And here's what's interesting, because when I work with the teams I work with, especially college athletes, because I had an occasion where I was working with the women's soccer team, and one of the athletes as a freshman, she didn't want to.
Speaker C:She was like a all.
Speaker C:You know, she played for the all US Team and whatnot, but her heart wasn't in it, right?
Speaker C:And so the first freshman year, she was kind of like, I don't know if I want to do that.
Speaker C:The sophomore year, she came back and she didn't want to play.
Speaker C:And I encouraged her not to play.
Speaker C:So there's this, you know, I'm there for the team, but if it comes between doing what's right for the athlete or right with the team, I'm gonna go with the athlete.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:So that's why I had a trust.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:They know I'm not going to sell them out.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And I tell the coaches and everybody else, listen, you know, we'll talk about it, but I'm not forcing anybody to do something they don't want to do.
Speaker C:And I'm gonna do what's right.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker C:So having that and then having the direct experience of that, seeing that when I'm talking about them, even if I'm talking with them, with the coaches, I'm talking as if they're still there.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:I'm not going to disrespect them.
Speaker C:I'm going to respect them.
Speaker C:And it sounds hokey.
Speaker C:I'm just saying it sounds hokey, but that's what works.
Speaker C:That's what works, man.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker C:And it's like.
Speaker C:So it's like they know that I'm all in.
Speaker C:And it's interesting because I still have those relationships.
Speaker C: nce, I don't know if that was: Speaker C:She's one of my student athletes from Boston College, played for the women's soccer team.
Speaker C:We still have a relationship.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I have another young lady, played volleyball, and I was just out in Cleveland, and I got to meet her husband and her family, and I've known her for over 22 years.
Speaker C:So that's it.
Speaker C:It's about the relationship, whether it's Phil or everybody.
Speaker C:So I like to think that when I walk away from an organization or no longer work with them, that they know and they trust me because I kept, you know, because I'm trustworthy.
Speaker C:But it's really more about my relationship with them.
Speaker C:It's not so much, you know, winning and losing as it is being authentic and being real.
Speaker B:George, one last thing before we let you go.
Speaker B:We do appreciate your time tonight talking to us about the world of professional sports and performance.
Speaker B:I know you worked with Jessica Pegula, who is a tennis player whose parents have an ownership in the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker B:Let's just say the Bills called you up and said, we haven't been able to get over the hump, and Josh Allen's a great quarterback, but we just haven't gotten him there.
Speaker B:I know it takes a while to sit with that, but what's one thing do you think maybe, you know, you could work on with him to get with those positives?
Speaker B:Because, you know, the Bills, they've had, you know, four years in a row of not winning a Super bowl, and now it's been a couple of years of them getting close but not there.
Speaker B:What's one thing you think you could help the Bills with as we talk about the super bowl at this time of year?
Speaker C:Well, it's, you know, what's the lesson?
Speaker C:What do you need to learn?
Speaker C:What do you need?
Speaker C:So when you get the feedback, okay, you didn't win.
Speaker C:So we're going to assess.
Speaker C:Well, what did we need to get over the hump?
Speaker C:So then it's about embracing that, yeah, we didn't win.
Speaker C:But then what do we need to learn in practice so that we can achieve what we want to achieve?
Speaker C:It's really that simple.
Speaker C:It's like, okay, so what's the growth mindset?
Speaker C:What do we need to learn?
Speaker C:What do we need to practice?
Speaker C:What do we need to get?
Speaker C:You know, when, when the, when the Bulls lost to the Celtics, they went out and got, you know, they went out and got a.
Speaker C:Got an amazing center.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:You know, it's the same thing.
Speaker C:So you have to, you have to adapt and adjust, but you don't quit.
Speaker C:And you might not win the Super Bowl.
Speaker C:It's not guaranteed.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker C:But if you can honestly say that you left everything on the field and you lost, you just lost, that's still a winner.
Speaker C:Once again, people trying to tell you that you're amazing because.
Speaker C:And if you don't win a Super bowl, you're not.
Speaker C:That's both.
Speaker C:That's B.S.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's their opinion.
Speaker C:Their opinion doesn't count.
Speaker C:Your opinion counts.
Speaker C:They're not on the field.
Speaker C:They don't have any skin in the game like the, the man in the arena.
Speaker C:They're not in the arena.
Speaker C:So it's the same thing.
Speaker C:Well, you need to learn and practice so that you get what you want to get.
Speaker C:And just with Gulas, parents not only own the, the Buffalo Bills, they also own.
Speaker C:But that's it.
Speaker C:It's the same deal.
Speaker C:Well, talk to.
Speaker C:It's like, okay, well, you need to learn so that you can do what you want to do.
Speaker C:Learn and practice.
Speaker C:I said, it's telling you exactly what you need to focus on.
Speaker C:And they've gotten much better from last year, so if they can improve even more next year, they're probably going to be in the Super Bowl.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:It's all about listening to your inner self, not the press, not the limits that people put on you, I'm sure, and just the positivity which is oozing through you.
Speaker A:It's been great, George, having you on.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:We'd love to have you on again if you join us, because this is a topic that we just scratched the surface.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's my pleasure.
Speaker C:And I just want to say to the audience, everybody, you some bad mo foes.
Speaker C:Just saying, you some bad mo foes.
Speaker C:You just don't know it.
Speaker A:Well, George, thanks so much.
Speaker A:Really a pleasure.
Speaker A:All the best.
Speaker A:And we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you, sir.
Speaker C:Welcome back to you.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:We're going to take a quick break.
Speaker A:We'll be back.
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Speaker A: : Speaker A:If you'd like to join us at any point here in the last 15 minutes, phone lines are open.
Speaker A:We'll talk about anything.
Speaker A:But we just finished up a very interesting conversation with George Mumford, who sports psychologist, although he really, he's a lot more than that.
Speaker A:Just talking about mindfulness and performance.
Speaker A:And you can see he worked from college athletes to Kobe Bryant to Shaq to Michael Jordan, those types, I'm very interested.
Speaker A:This is not a plug because we're not getting any cut of this.
Speaker A:But I want to read one, if not both of his books because they look really, you know, no matter even if you're an athlete or not for performance, they just look wonderful.
Speaker A:And again, those are unlocked and the mindful athlete.
Speaker A:So, Cap, we're going to go change gears here a little bit and talk about performance and our New York Mets here performing in the off season.
Speaker A:You know, the big question is still, is Pete Alonso coming back?
Speaker A:What's going on?
Speaker A:As this drags on, do you think that it increases the possibility he's going to come back or Is it just like he's got his save face and go someplace else?
Speaker B:I really have no idea at this point because I think, you know, with Steve Cohen at Amazing day last week, had to step up and listen to the chants of we want Pete and getting upset.
Speaker B:And I think at that point it was like he was open, you know, he opened it up and said, listen, this is harder than the Juan Soto stuff.
Speaker B:We're trying, but they have so many other things.
Speaker B:They want opt outs here.
Speaker B:They want, if he, if he takes an opt out, he gets more money.
Speaker B:Like there's so many little things going on that Pete's camp wants, which obviously comes from Boris.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And everybody says once he signs, which people think he's still going to sign with the Mets, that he's going to dump Boris.
Speaker B:And I don't know if that's the case.
Speaker B:I just think it's just such a weird situation where like what's left, Mike, besides maybe supposedly has a 3 year deal from the Mets.
Speaker B:He has a 3 year deal from the Blue Jays.
Speaker B:But are the Blue Jays really offering more than the Mets?
Speaker A:I can't imagine that they are.
Speaker B:And especially, you know, now that they're dealing with the Vladimir Guerrero situation.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I just, Micah just, I honestly, I couldn't tell you right now if Steve Cohen's going to jump in.
Speaker B:I just don't think Steve Cohen is going to undermine what David Stern says as far as what his plan is.
Speaker B:And I don't think they're going to go above and beyond.
Speaker B:Maybe they give him a 1 year AAV high contract or 2 years with an opt out after one.
Speaker B:But I honestly at this point I think it's a crapshoot.
Speaker B:The crazy part about it is Max Scherzer signs with the Blue Jays and there's a chance that Pete Alonso signs with the Blue Jays and the Mets home opener is against the Blue Jays.
Speaker B:Could you imagine who gets booed and who doesn't?
Speaker A:I know Scott Borris is, I mean he's an all timer, he's super agent, he's all these things and he obviously does right by most of his players.
Speaker A:But the last couple years with these guys it's just been.
Speaker A:I mean, why would you even want to take the chance?
Speaker B:I don't get it.
Speaker A:It's all, I mean it's literally all or nothing.
Speaker B:Yeah, and he comes out at like the owner's meetings and does all these soliloquies and tries to put people's names in rhymes and stuff like that.
Speaker B:Meanwhile, Alex Bregman sitting there going, where am I going?
Speaker B:I want a six year deal.
Speaker B:Okay, he's got a six year deal with another team, but he doesn't want to go there.
Speaker B:So I think what's happening is he's getting these people some deals, but it's not really what the player wants.
Speaker B:And I think when the player is not able to dictate what they want and you give Scott Boris the wheel, he's just going to keep playing until he gets something.
Speaker B:I think this thing with, you know, Boomer Siason was trying to say the other day it was going to be done by 5 o'clock and all this stuff, I think this plays on at the spring training.
Speaker B:Past pitches and catches, really.
Speaker B:I do not think that Pete Alonso signs in the next 14 days.
Speaker A:For his sake, I hope he does because I just can't see even, you know, starting late with any team, whoever it is, is going to help him, you know, get off to a great start or just be ready to play.
Speaker A:I mean, we've seen this before.
Speaker A:Guys hold out, right?
Speaker A:You can, you can hit all the batting practice you want against a machine.
Speaker A:You can work out, you know, away from a team.
Speaker A:There's just no substitute for being ready, being with a club and getting ready to go, especially if it's a new team.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I don't know if he's going to be with a new team.
Speaker B:But I'll tell you this much, if at some point in the next days the Mets make a move for a guy that could play first base, that's it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think at that point they're done.
Speaker B:I mean, they go out and get a, you know, a guy and people say, oh, Iglesias is no longer around because they got this two way player that, you know, the Mets could have in the infield.
Speaker B:Fine.
Speaker B:But you know, if they want to move Vientos the first, fine.
Speaker B:You want to, you know, put Mauricio at third base.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:But once the Mets make a move for a guy that can be a first baseman, I'm sorry, Pete, but the time is up.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And you can't fault the Mets.
Speaker A:I mean, they've stayed in it.
Speaker A:It's not like they've said, hey, look, this is our hard deadline and we're going.
Speaker A:And interesting that you brought up about being at that Mets fest last week and Steve Cohen having to deal with those chants.
Speaker A:I thought he did a great job.
Speaker B:I think he did.
Speaker B:I think it was a little disrespectful.
Speaker B:I think fans went in with an Agenda and wanted to make their voice heard that way.
Speaker B:I don't think it was about that.
Speaker A:Could you imagine being him though?
Speaker A:I got you Juan Soto for three quarters of a billion and you're here.
Speaker B:That's what people will forget.
Speaker B:Short term, seven years.
Speaker B:They got Juan Soto for a good, a good deal.
Speaker B:Like, you know, it's, it's the best player.
Speaker B:But, you know, one of the top five players in the game.
Speaker B:Pete Alonso is not one of the top five first basemen in the game.
Speaker B:Forget about top players in the game.
Speaker B:You know, I think he's good.
Speaker B:I think he, you know, but here's the thing.
Speaker B:Pete Alonso is never ever going to get a six year offer.
Speaker B:If he gets a three year, he might get another three year.
Speaker B:But Pete Alonso is in his 30s now.
Speaker B:His offense is declining.
Speaker B:His defense is not going to get any better than it is.
Speaker A:It's never even been that.
Speaker B:So that's why I think like this is take it and enjoy it.
Speaker B:But if Pete Alonso does a one or two years, I don't think he comes back after that.
Speaker B:I think the Mets are trying to patch it up, make the fans happy for a year.
Speaker B:But I'm okay, honestly, Mike, I'm okay if he doesn't come back.
Speaker A:So next topic I wanted to bring up is the Knicks.
Speaker A:So lots of trades going on.
Speaker A:We were just discussing trade involving Kevin Herter, who, you know, from when he was a young kid and we had his dad on the program a couple months ago.
Speaker A:The NBA is just flying.
Speaker A:You know, Luka Doncic goes from the Mavericks to the Lakers.
Speaker A:Oh my God.
Speaker A:And Anthony Davis goes back.
Speaker A:Just a trade that I think caught everybody by surprise.
Speaker A:I mean, I told you when I saw it last night, I thought it was, I was on my phone, I thought it was like one of those fake accounts, just making a joke.
Speaker A:But with our local team, the Knicks, do they make a trade?
Speaker A:Does, can they.
Speaker A:Do they have an asset in Mitchell Robinson?
Speaker B:I think waiting for Mitchell Robinson is too much.
Speaker B:I think it's time that you have to go.
Speaker B:Like you can't rely.
Speaker A:We've been waiting for a year.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:That's what I mean.
Speaker B:Like he's either physically or mentally.
Speaker B:He's not ready when he, when he's asked to be called upon.
Speaker A:Unbelievable.
Speaker B:And I think you need something else out there.
Speaker B:My problem with the Knicks, and I like the Villanova Knicks, I wanted Divincenzo to be with the other guys.
Speaker B:There really isn't anybody on this team who's homegrown, who you'd say, wow, this is the guy that we built this team around.
Speaker B:And I think at some point the Knicks are going to have to do that.
Speaker B:So I wouldn't sell my soul to the devil for this year.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:I would try to hope that we could ride this out as much as we can.
Speaker B:The call Anthony Town situation.
Speaker B:And I do think, and you know, people could talk about this.
Speaker B:I do think the minutes are going to catch up.
Speaker B:If you come up with the top seven trios of who's played the most minutes.
Speaker B:If you put all the trios of all the dick guys together, they make up the top seven.
Speaker B:It's either Brunson with Ananube with Mikhail Bridges, or them with, you know, the fourth guy in Towns.
Speaker B:And you put them all together, they're playing so many minutes that eventually someone's either going to get hurt or the minutes are just going to kill them when it comes playoff time.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think they do need a bench.
Speaker B:I think they knew deep do need somebody off the bench, but they've been playing pretty well.
Speaker B:But eventually you have to challenge the Celtics.
Speaker B:You got to challenge some of the other teams, you know, to keep going in the West.
Speaker B:But I do think some of that stuff for the Knicks is going to catch up to them.
Speaker A:Yeah, when that Towns trade was made, you know, obviously everybody was crossing their fingers hoping that it would work out because Julius Randle goes.
Speaker A:But you can't ask for anything more.
Speaker A:I mean, the guy is a first team All Star right now, you know, not that, you know, the All Star game is anything exciting, but I mean, he's legit, you know, starting center in the Eastern Conference where he should be.
Speaker A:Him and Brunson have worked together.
Speaker A:It seems like they've played together forever.
Speaker A:But yeah, without.
Speaker A:Without any kind of bench when we.
Speaker A:When we're getting into April, May, if there is a June.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, these guys are finely tuned athletes, but you got to have, you know, a sec.
Speaker A:I don't want to say a second unit, just a couple of guys to come in, for Pete's sake.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Something to give you a spark plug.
Speaker B:And I think at this point, you know, Nick's sitting kind of like three.
Speaker B:We got Cleveland two, I think has been a real surprise this year.
Speaker B:But then it comes down to the West.
Speaker B:How are you going to be able to beat some of these teams in the West?
Speaker B:But I don't.
Speaker B:I don't even know.
Speaker B:I haven't even been really looking at who they might go after.
Speaker B:But now I think with Luka going To the Lakers.
Speaker B:That's a bold, bold situation that, you know, I don't really know how much talk went on because it just happened.
Speaker B:LeBron James said he didn't know about it.
Speaker B:The coach says he doesn't know about it.
Speaker B:General manager comes out today and basically says, this is the only team I talk to.
Speaker A:I saw an interview before I came in with the general manager.
Speaker A:Well, it was the press conference.
Speaker A:General manager of Dallas, along with Jason Kidd, who's the coach.
Speaker A:And Jason Kidd, he literally looked like he was whitewashed.
Speaker A:I mean, he just, he was stunned and happy, sad wherever he was.
Speaker A:The guy literally though looked like he had just been hit by a truck.
Speaker A:I mean, so I always am thinking to myself, how do these guys not know that there's a trade in the works or, you know, something's going on?
Speaker A:I really think that this probably was done way behind the scenes and they just said, hey, this is happening and deal with it.
Speaker B:Yeah, and I think that would be good now with this trade.
Speaker B:And you know, as I said, having a.
Speaker B:Someone in this of Kevin Herder that I'm glad is gone to a different situation.
Speaker B:He kind of has not been playing much with the Kings and now is going to go to the souls.
Speaker B:You know, I think there's a kind of a three way trade that out there of the Knicks possibly getting rid of Tyler Kolik and Mitchell Robinson and maybe getting the Sixers involved or using some of the picks that they've had to possibly get OU Dosumo from the Bulls and as well as Kenrick Williams, which would give them something up front.
Speaker B:I think that's what the Knicks can use.
Speaker B:I think they can also probably get rid of a guy like Jericho Sims, give them to the Lakers and say, hey, you lost Anthony Davis, who's a big man.
Speaker B:Give me some draft picks.
Speaker B:Because I think the Knicks have lacked the picks in the past.
Speaker B:So, you know, you got to bolster yourself for the bench now, but also look for the future.
Speaker A:Yeah, because they had so many before they made the trade with the Nets and for Bridges and now, you know, so they.
Speaker A:Not that they don't have any, but they had this embarrassment of riches.
Speaker A:They used that.
Speaker A:Bridges has been very up and down, you know, even at down points.
Speaker A:I think he's a valuable member of the team.
Speaker A:He's had some great games.
Speaker A:I think there's only one basketball.
Speaker A:So, you know, he can only do so much.
Speaker A:So some people say, oh, you know, one night he's hitting 10 and then he comes out and hits 40.
Speaker A:But he's a player.
Speaker A:He's a smart, smart player.
Speaker A:He knows what to do with the three, four minutes we have left.
Speaker A:I did want to touch on the Islanders because we were talking about this as well.
Speaker A:It looks like the seven game winning streak is about to come to an end.
Speaker A:But still, that's a team also.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker A:So Jekyll and Hyde came out of nowhere.
Speaker A:I mean, a month ago when.
Speaker A:Well, I'd say even, you know, two weeks ago.
Speaker B:Yeah, a couple weeks ago.
Speaker A:Yeah, when we were talking to John about it and they were struggling and then I went to a game, they looked pretty good and they hadn't lost since.
Speaker A:Again, injuries did come into the All Star break right now.
Speaker A:Islanders trending upward, Rangers were trending downward, then came up a little bit, made a big trade.
Speaker B:It's going to be tough.
Speaker B:They got three games before the break with Vegas, the Jets and the Wilds, who are all teams above them, and then they come back out of the break with some tough teams.
Speaker B:So I think this is going to be a telling few weeks as far as finishing the month of February, but at least you put yourself in respectability.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Winning seven games in a row, winning games that maybe you thought you weren't going to win.
Speaker B:Winning games in overtime, you know, those are the games where it's like, oh, the Islanders are up to one.
Speaker B:They give up a goal last night with 50 seconds to go and you're like, all right, at least you still win in overtime.
Speaker B:We didn't get the, the sorry points.
Speaker A:Well, and just like our guest George Mumford there before, you know, it's about belief.
Speaker A:And you certainly say that they believe that they can win.
Speaker A:All right, last one.
Speaker A:So super bowl we got.
Speaker A:What's your, what's your pick?
Speaker A:Philadelphia, Kansas City.
Speaker A:Do you care?
Speaker A:Do you not care?
Speaker A:It's not Buffalo, so you could care less.
Speaker B:I really have no interest.
Speaker B:I mean, do I really want to see a Chief Pete or a three Chief?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:As long as I don't have to listen to Tony Romo and some of the garbage that they put out there.
Speaker A:Well, there's a.
Speaker A:Is it, is it Tom Brady?
Speaker A:Is he on the call?
Speaker B:I think it's Brady and, and Kevin Burkhart.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it's a.
Speaker B:That'll be fun to listen.
Speaker A:Yeah, that'll be.
Speaker A:Well, Brady.
Speaker B:Well, halftime show.
Speaker B:We'll see where that goes.
Speaker B:I think that's going to be a disaster.
Speaker A:Well, when is it not?
Speaker A:I mean, there's always some type of controversy from, from a Football halftime, Super Bowl.
Speaker A:My pick.
Speaker B:We got close.
Speaker B:Close game.
Speaker B:Chiefs.
Speaker A:How'd you guess?
Speaker A:You know, it's funny.
Speaker A:I had this conversation with my mom this morning, and I hope she's still listening.
Speaker A:We were.
Speaker A:We were in the car and she had.
Speaker A:And I said, well, I really don't have anything, but I think it's more that I dislike the Eagles more than I like the Chiefs.
Speaker A:So, you know, it'd be nice to see a little new blood.
Speaker A:But I guess since we had Pat Mahomes senior on the program, we're going to root for Patrick.
Speaker A:Something that hasn't been done.
Speaker A:Three peat.
Speaker A:Yeah, I have.
Speaker A:I love Saquon Barkley.
Speaker A:I'm not rooting against him.
Speaker A:No, but just the whole Philly thing.
Speaker A:Not my thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, last thing I will say, congrats to St.
Speaker B:John's for having a great start.
Speaker B:Let's see where it finishes.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And my mind, my man John Calipari goes back into Kentucky, gets a win.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Like to thank George Mumford, our guest.
Speaker A:He was fantastic.
Speaker A:We'll have him on again.
Speaker A:Brian Graves is always behind the glass.
Speaker A:Chris Caputo, excellent job.
Speaker A:We'll see in a couple of weeks.
Speaker A:We'll have some super bowl results and we'll have some high school basketball results.
Speaker A:I'll either be very happy or in, I don't want to say, crisis mode.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker A:Be well, everybody.
Speaker A:The views expressed in the previous program.
Speaker B:Did not necessarily represent those of the.
Speaker A:Staff, management or owners of wgb.
